This is an interview with Rachael Dietkus conducted by Lydia Hooper.

What does design justice mean to you, Rachael?

The primary thing that continues to come up for me is that there's a rights-based approach in design, that it's going beyond what we have to do, what we should do, what's good to do, and what's ethical to do. So I continuously think about what makes a design system just and fair.

Of all the principles, are there some that you find more compelling than others? Or that are most connected to what you're devoted to?

When I think about the principles as a whole and what design justice means to me as an actual way of practicing it, everything is on the table for examination and thoughtful integration instead of choosing to opt-in or opt-out. And as I’ve gotten more and more familiar with others within the network - the things they are sharing and care about - it is evident that the Network’s practices are beyond a mile wide and beyond a mile deep. Integration and the daily practice of the Design Justice principles are core to how the members embrace design.

How do we live these principles in our work and the non-work parts of our lives? Practicing being trauma-informed and trauma-responsive as a social worker and designer have made me a better social worker, designer, parent, and colleague. Of course, I still have my moments of being imperfect like we all do, but it has given me a deepened compassion, not just for others but for myself as well.

The principle that stands out is number nine: We work towards non-exploitative solutions that reconnect us to the earth and to each other. This comes up so often as a social worker and as someone in these two different disciplines that cause and perpetuate harm in different ways. That principle helps me consistently examine and re-examine what I've learned, how I interpret that learning, and how I apply, change and question it. We aren’t taught explicitly not to cause harm or even examine whether existing ways of doing are the root cause of moral and ethical injury. I never learned how we should not exploit people as part of the process, especially in social work. We never talked about how social work, as a discipline, is often very complicit in the structural and systemic oppression and harm that is out there. For many pursuing these programs, you are rushing through the degree and then reacting by trying to help people in these horrific, drowning systems of harm.

Are there other projects that you want to share about that relate to the principles that you would want to share, that you think members of this network would learn from and benefit from knowing about?

I’ve been seeing a growing design-centric interest in what we know as the child welfare system and foster care system in the United States. There has been a great deal of funding allocated to different design teams to research and understand various problem solving across other aspects of that experience for youth and families. I got to work on a couple of different projects from two very different angles last year related to this.

I integrated Design Justice principles in examining and approaching my involvement in these projects. I referred to these principles in how I think about the work and how to approach this as a social worker-designer. I encouraged the two teams to consider how we can incorporate these in the overarching goals of what we're trying to achieve and our day-to-day interactions. We were also faced with how to thoughtfully, carefully, and full of care shift power to those with lived experiences when doing this work.

Do you want to talk about the challenges that you’ve experienced, and if you have any guidance on how to approach challenges that come up?

I cannot get out of my head this notion of pace in the work and our basic human needs of rest and recovery. There's this continuum of care that we often dismiss, trivialize, or minimize – even amongst great, thoughtful, do-good designers. There's something to that that I am just frustrated and fascinated by and want to help figure out because I'm seeing too many good people get burned out and crispy by our old ways of doing. It’s as if the work is good, the result is just and equity-centered or anti-racist, but at what cost to the individuals and the collective teams that are worn out, exhausted, and persistently not being taken care of?

We are afraid to talk about this aspect of the work because many of us work for good organizations. We are (hopefully) working on design work aligned with our purpose, values, and integrity. We’re appreciative of paid work, even if it’s complicated. Still, people make up these organizations and systems, and people have a constant array of choices to make within these systems.

I’m not going to give up on demonstrating and asking how we can consistently challenge unethical, unhealthy, and broken practices to create a different kind of cumulative effect.

Do you have dreams or visions for where the design justice field will be in 10-20 years?

There will be many more new methods; we will simply have to do design differently. We are moving towards a fever pitch where there is no alternative but to design in these ways. And we may end up grieving our old ways of being.

In clinical practice, there’s a realm of work around ambiguous grief (sometimes called complicated grief) I think is relevant here. We need this language and understanding in design around grief and trauma. We need comfort while knowing we are rolling through discomfort, especially since there can be quite a comfort in knowing that things will be unknown. It can be challenging to feel our way through this, but it’s our only way for a just design future.

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You can learn more about Rachael by visiting www.socialworkerswho.design and/or following on Instagram @socialworkerswhodesign.

This interview was conducted and written by Lydia Hooper, who can be reached through www.lydiahooper.com.

Would you be willing to share your experiences with the Design Justice Network? There are no prerequisites (including a traditional design background), and past stories have featured members working in a variety of fields such as social work, community organizing, and handicrafts. We make the process easy for you (no writing involved!) and will only share what/how you consent for us to. We are particularly interested in hearing from members outside of Europe and the North American East Coast. If you have questions or interests, please contact designjusticenetwork@gmail.com.